tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3521318064826848712.post7514004169953431772..comments2023-10-19T04:51:53.516-05:00Comments on The Legal Dollar: Restoring Dignity To The Law - Those Entering Law School Part 2Managing Partnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05130017520583425490noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3521318064826848712.post-90490508443585008662020-07-16T02:57:22.755-05:002020-07-16T02:57:22.755-05:00Thank you for sharing such great information.
It ...Thank you for sharing such great information. <br />It has help me in finding out more detail about <a rel="nofollow">critical illness cover</a>Ziana Royhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818627803589294107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3521318064826848712.post-14830134996705257022010-11-17T10:50:12.652-06:002010-11-17T10:50:12.652-06:00Hi LTSB,
You raise some interesting concerns. He...Hi LTSB, <br />You raise some interesting concerns. Here's my take. I like your idea of a basic first year, but I would emphasize writing. Many students are just not getting it beforehand - also legal writing is pretty different from creative writing that they may have done. I really like your idea about teaching students directly about how the courts work. I mention "court clerk" to some recent grads and they just give me a blank look.<br /><br />I also like more efficient course work, but I am skeptical on self-study for the majority of law students. Super-motivated ones like yourself will do just fine, obviously - passing the NY bar without the bar prep course is the modern day equivalent of the virgin birth!<br /><br />With regard to deciding what is best for people, I think that we have a responsibility to our young to make sure that they fully and completely understand the impact of their decisions before they make them. I also think that we have a responsibility as a society to see thay our tax dollars are well-spent, that they produce a return for those that we are taking them from. In this regard, I mean not just that the funds will be paid back (so that the next generation can use them) but that the funds increase the GDP for the country in order to make things better for everyone.Managing Partnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05130017520583425490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3521318064826848712.post-90986427516753417792010-11-17T09:26:28.001-06:002010-11-17T09:26:28.001-06:00To answer your question, I'm not sure how much...To answer your question, I'm not sure how much overlap there is between practice areas, and I'd like state bars to ask practitioners. The question is how much mere *familiarity* do practitioners need with other fields? It doesn't help that some fields require more breadth than others; for example, I recall a CLE on the interconnections between family and bankruptcy law. I also recall an amusing moment in class when my criminal law professor struggled to remember the elements of civil negligence. Clearly legal education must reflect the needs of the legal market.<br /><br />Lawyers of all stripes need to know some theory no matter what they do, especially constitutional law (and I might add some international and comparative law, but that's a personal bias).<br /><br />At bare minimum I think a basic first year that restructures courses would help greatly. Rather than torts, contracts, property, we have a Civil Law (theories of liability) course. Writing is important (though you should know that from college, or high school really). There should be a public law/civics course that teaches how the courts work, state, federal, municipal, and some local government law.<br /><br />Any coursework that leads to certification should be pretty efficient, and I'm openly in favor of self-study. I say this from experience--I passed the NY bar exam without taking a bar prep course. I like clear justifications for why lecture formats are better for training workers than self-teaching towards a test. If there isn't class discussion and the subject matter doesn't lend itself to entertainment, then it's no wonder faculty moan about students playing online poker in class.<br /><br />Regarding what you and J-Dog think about experience leading to an informed decision, my concern is more with at what point "we" need to decide what's best for people. That's another problem I have with law school transparency advocacy: when is it right to tell someone that he or she should not go and that a juris doctor is not a worthwhile investment, even with loan repayment options?<br /><br />Gah! I've rambled.LSTBhttp://lawschooltuitionbubble.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3521318064826848712.post-21725439591100254962010-11-17T00:12:59.216-06:002010-11-17T00:12:59.216-06:00Hi J-Dog,
Thanks for the comment and (more import...Hi J-Dog, <br />Thanks for the comment and (more importantly) the inspiration. We get caught up in so many other aspects of the law that we forget very fundamental principles like dignity. Thanks for reminding me about how important dignity really is.Managing Partnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05130017520583425490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3521318064826848712.post-20352334801380311752010-11-16T16:44:10.615-06:002010-11-16T16:44:10.615-06:00Hi - I finally got around to reading these two gre...Hi - I finally got around to reading these two great posts.<br /><br />I think these are mostly good ideas - especially 1, 2, and 6. I think 4 is a great idea from a student standpoint (I worked in a law office prior to going and it helped me immensely to understand what I was getting into), however I don't think it would be much of a deterrent effect, as I think people who really want to go to law school and be a lawyer are going to go and be a lawyer regardless of what obstacles are put in the path.<br /><br />Regarding 5, I hate the USNWR and put little stock into them, but I do think law schools should be fostering a more ethically-sound and dignified environment. I'm happy you brought up medical schools, because in medical schools, as a practical matter, no one cares about GPA. Even though you have a bunch of type A personalities, they manage to have a mostly collegial environment despite having jerks for professors much of the time. I'm by no means an expert on medical school, but given the place of most doctors in society and their resulting social skills, I think the legal profession could learn quite a bit from medical schools.<br /><br />I am skeptical about capping law professor salaries or getting the government involved in a determination of who is "fit" for law school. I think if you published accurate salary information and put some more scrutiny in the loan process (get rid of automatic guarantees for people to go to Thomas Cooley or similar schools), the system would solve a lot of the ancillary problems.<br /><br />Regarding your comment above, I am wholeheartedly in favor of certification programs in specialties rather than a generalized degree (you know, like how doctors do it.) There is very little reason for a future criminal defense lawyer to sit through anything more than a cursory class in, say, property or the First Amendment. Or if someone wants to do wills and trusts, why should they have to sit through a class on federal courts? Yet many law schools require this sort of stuff.<br /><br />Some great comments, MP. I hadn't thought of some of these, and I certainly agree with most of them.J-Doghttp://restoringdignitytothelaw.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3521318064826848712.post-37462922667465487762010-11-16T14:26:55.458-06:002010-11-16T14:26:55.458-06:00Hi LSTB,
Years of experience may very well be bet...Hi LSTB, <br />Years of experience may very well be better - especially if the intent is to create a position that they can come back to. My initial proposal was more about just allowing them to see what the practice is really like before they blow $200K. <br /><br />Your detective example is also intriguing. It seems like maybe you are envisioning just a few additional classes. I like the focus, but I am worried about the scope. What do you think of a more practical first semester learning the basics of civil procedure, criminal law contract and torts from working attorneys and then having many certificate programs taught by working attorneys in their field? Effectively, the student would "major" in area of law after the first semester or year - and the "major" would be very well defined and may have a major-specific certification test?Managing Partnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05130017520583425490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3521318064826848712.post-68613977212753111452010-11-16T12:51:22.216-06:002010-11-16T12:51:22.216-06:00Managing Partner, #4 is right on the money.
My th...Managing Partner, #4 is right on the money.<br /><br />My thought would be to require a few years' exposure rather than a few hundred hours. The idea being that law school is the final step before practice, and students would likely return to work at their previous firms where they already know what the drill is.<br /><br />I also think we could expand the scope. For example, it stands to reason that a detective could make a decent criminal lawyer after a modest amount of legal training. This is another reason I advocate certification over degrees as I did in your previous post.LSTBhttp://lawschooltuitionbubble.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com